Subject: [Fictionary] OCTROI ballot

From: J-J Cote <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 08:59:37 -0500

Here are a bunch of fanciful definitions for OCTROI, and one real one
(hint: it's a noun). As usual, let me know your best guess and second-best
guess as to the one that rings true, as well.as any comments you might want
to add. Votes due by the end of Sunday, February 25. Replies can come to me
at this address.

Jean-Joseph
________________________________

octroi - n. - A monarch of one of the eight states that result from the
breakup of a kingdom.

octroi - n. - The prince governors of the eight "Silver Cities" of Anatolia
in the Seleucid Empire.

octroi - n. - The set of eight caretakers assigned to provide all-hours
vigilance at a small temple or shrine for a local deity.

octroi - n. - A ring of small filaments surrounding the mouth, used by many
bony fishes to find prey by detecting underwater vibrations and electrical
fields.

octroi - n. - A large, ornate eight-spoked wheel design featuring the
owner's coat of arms. Popular on the coronation coaches of late 18th
century European monarchs.

octroi - n. - In the Scottish Rite, the seven member sovereign council of a
Lodge of the Northern Jurisdiction. (Note: the council consisted of eight
members until the reforms of 1879.)

octroi - n. - (from oc troi, "against Troy") 1) A smuggler of arms to the
Greek rebels during the Greek Wars of Independence. 2) A young man given to
vain boasting. 3) A pretentious poet.

octroi - n. - An order of men at Athens, in the time of Pericles, who had
been proved by their mutual testimony to have ascended the Nile past the
Seventh Cataract to its source in the eternal ice of the Equatorial
mountains.

octroi - n. - 1) A concession or privilege granted by an absolute sovereign
and serving as a limitation on his authority. 2) a: A tax on commodities
brought into a town or city especially in certain European countries, a
municipal customs. b: The agency for collecting such a tax or the city
entrance at which it is collected.

Octroi - n. - The ruling council of the islands of the northern Aegean Sea,
during at least the Peloponnesian War (431–404 BCE); no remaining records
identify the full extent of its rule, but the name leads scholars to
conclude that it controlled at least the eight largest islands (Lesbos,
Chios (aka Scio), Lemnos, Samos, Thasos, Imbros (today Gökçeada), Icaria,
and Samothrace) of the region..
________________________________

joke definition: Octroi, proper noun. The eighth Deanna clone created by
Thomas Riker trying to recreate the transporter accident that created him.

---

From: J-J Cote <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 21:01:40 -0500

I said votes were due by the end of today, but as is customary, I'll give
you another day of extension, so, but the end of tomorrow (Monday). I
already have votes from Jim, Nicolas, Eric, David, Fran, Josh, Ranjit, and
Pierre.

Jean-Joseph

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J-J Cote <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 8:59 AM
Subject: OCTROI ballot
To: fictionary group <[email-masked]>

Jean-Joseph

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From: eLLioTT morEton <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 00:24:02 +0000 (UTC)

Checking after voting:

The OED traces it to the French verb "octroyer", of which it says: "<
Middle French, French octroyer (late 14th cent.; compare Anglo-Norman
octrier), alteration of Old French otroier ottroye v. after classical
Latin auctor auctor n. and auctorāre to authorize (see auctoration
n.)."

German "oktroyieren" does in fact mean "to impose something on
someone", says dict.cc.  Well, I guess taxes are imposed, aren't they?

Regards,
Elliott

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From: eLLioTT morEton <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 00:24:33 +0000 (UTC)

SORRY !  READ NO FURTHER !!

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From: eLLioTT morEton <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 00:25:10 +0000 (UTC)

ksorry, sorry...

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From: J-J Cote <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 23:29:24 -0500

We have a clear-cut winner: Josh's fish whiskers successfully avoided the
eight-sided king trap to take the lion's share of the points. Nice work!

Jean-Joseph

General comments:
Jim: I like the variation of using a word that makes nearly *everybody*
think it refers to similar things — in this case eights, with a runner-up
of Greece. However, I want to reward diversity.
Ranjit: Pretty much everyone had the same idea, eh? King of the octopodes!
I want to vote only for non 8-king defs, but that seems like an
overreaction. Hmm.
Pierre: I am discounting anything involving eight or a king, including, of
course, my
own def, even if the eight is reduced to seven.

octroi - n. - A monarch of one of the eight states that result from the
breakup of a kingdom.
by Pierre. No points.
Nick: Eight like me.
Elliott: OCTO + ROI, natch.

octroi - n. - The prince governors of the eight "Silver Cities" of Anatolia
in the Seleucid Empire. Nick 2 = 2 points.
by Eric.
Nick: This sounds right to me.
Elliott: OCTO + ROI, perhaps.  The Octarchy..

octroi - n. - The set of eight caretakers assigned to provide all-hours
vigilance at a small temple or shrine for a local deity.
By Fran. No points.
Nick: Maybe?
Elliott: OCTO + ... hmmm, dunno.

octroi - n. - A ring of small filaments surrounding the mouth, used by many
bony fishes to find prey by detecting underwater vibrations and electrical
fields.
By Josh. Eric 2, David 2, Pierre 2, Hutch 1, Elliott 1 plus two points for
correct guess = 10 points.
Nick: Catfish whiskers?
Eric: Two points, for not being about eight Greek men. Or eight things, or
Greek.
Pierre: Two points, though I know that such a filament is called a barbel.
Hutch: I usually don't go for scientific fictionitions, but this one feels
right.
Elliott: Cthulhu-esque.  Maybe inspired by OCTOPUS?  But far-enough removed
from OCTO to merit a one-point vote.

octroi - n. - A large, ornate eight-spoked wheel design featuring the
owner's coat of arms. Popular on the coronation coaches of late 18th
century European monarchs.
by Nick. Josh 1, Ranjit 1 plus one point for correct guess = 3 points.
Elliott: OCTO + something.

octroi - n. - In the Scottish Rite, the seven member sovereign council of a
Lodge of the Northern Jurisdiction. (Note: the council consisted of eight
members until the reforms of 1879.)
by Ranjit. Jim 1, Nick 1, Fran 1 = 3 points.
Jim: One point for the bold move of pulling a “wait, why is September the
SEVENTH month??” explanation.
Nick: Feels too recent.
Eric: One point, for masons.
Elliott: OCTO + ROI.

octroi - n. - (from oc troi, "against Troy") 1) A smuggler of arms to the
Greek rebels during the Greek Wars of Independence. 2) A young man given to
vain boasting. 3) A pretentious poet.
by David. Ranjit 2, Pierre 1, Hutch 1, Elliott 2 plus one point for correct
guess = 7 points.
Nick: Avoiding the eighth temptation cleverly.
Ranjit: Hard to resist a pretentious poet.
Pierre: "Oc" isn't a Greek preposition, and a Greek word ending in "-oi" is
usually plural. One point.
Hutch: I like this one: from a smuggler to a stuck-up pen-wiper. 2 points
(not that I think it's actually the definition :-)
Elliott: Maybe they said "Troy" as a synecdoche for "Turkey"?  Two points,
plus the Byron Medal with the Rupert Brooke Cluster.

octroi - n. - An order of men at Athens, in the time of Pericles, who had
been proved by their mutual testimony to have ascended the Nile past the
Seventh Cataract to its source in the eternal ice of the Equatorial
mountains.
By Elliott. No points.
Nick: Legendary!
Elliott: Liars!  The Nile only has six cataracts, and I don't think the
ancients got anywhere near the Sixth (_vide_ the round about "Nero's
Expedition Up the Nile").  I made it seven rather than eight in case
someone decides to automatically vote against definitions containing the
word "eight".

octroi - n. - 1) A concession or privilege granted by an absolute sovereign
and serving as a limitation on his authority. 2) a: A tax on commodities
brought into a town or city especially in certain European countries, a
municipal customs. b: The agency for collecting such a tax or the city
entrance at which it is collected.
by merriam-webster.com. Jim 2, Nick 1, David 1, Josh 2 = 6 points.
Nick: I like the specificity.
Pierre: This involves a king, and I already knew that "octroyer" means
"grant". Recused. (see note below -- J-J)
Elliott: This likely the right one.  I vaguely recollect a German verb
"oktroyieren" or "oktroiieren" or the like, which I thought meant something
along the lines of "to impose something on someone".  What the heck is the
etymology? [...] Checking after voting: The OED traces it to the French
verb "octroyer", of which it says: "<Middle French, French octroyer (late
14th cent.; compare Anglo-Norman octrier), alteration of Old French otroier
ottroye v. after classical Latin auctor auctor n. and auctorāre to
authorize (see auctoration
n.)."  German "oktroyieren" does in fact mean "to impose something on
someone", says dict.cc.  Well, I guess taxes are imposed, aren't they?

Octroi - n. - The ruling council of the islands of the northern Aegean Sea,
during at least the Peloponnesian War (431–404 BCE); no remaining records
identify the full extent of its rule, but the name leads scholars to
conclude that it controlled at least the eight largest islands (Lesbos,
Chios (aka Scio), Lemnos, Samos, Thasos, Imbros (today Gökçeada), Icaria,
and Samothrace) of the region.
by Hutch. Fran 2 = 2 points.
Nick: Greek but don't recall this history. Maybe?
Fran: I feel like all that detail deserves some POINTS
Elliott: OCTO + ROI.
________________________________

joke definition: Octroi, proper noun. The eighth Deanna clone created by
Thomas Riker trying to recreate the transporter accident that created him.
Nick: Everyone can probably figure out this was me. 😆
Eric: Nice. Eight points.
Ranjit: I'll give this one 2 grams of gold-pressed latinum (approximately
equal to 5 quatloos)
Elliott: Star Trek?
________________________________

Note below: You try real hard, but you inevitably screw up anyway. When I
sent this word out, two people said they thought they might know it, but
neither one identified the "tax" definition that I had found. Pierre wrote,
"I don't know this in English, but I know the French verb "octroyer", which
means "grant". And upon learning the Spanish verb "otorgar", I pretty much
figured out their common etymon, which is "*auctoricare" (IIRR this is
unattested, hence the asterisk). I think I first saw the word "octroyé" on
some machine saying that a patent had been granted." Pretty good, but
nothing to do with taxes that I could see. But when it came time to put the
ballot together, I went to the dictionary website and grabbed the whole
definition, not noticing that meaning #1, which I had not previously
encountered, contained the word "grant" that Pierre had mentioned. If I had
just gone with meaning #2, Pierre wouldn't have felt the need to recuse
himself. But it doesn't appear to have affected the outcome.

---

From: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2024 08:48:21 -0500

Thanks, guys! I'll start looking for a word in the next day or two.

On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 11:29 PM J-J Cote <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> octroi - n. - The prince governors of the eight "Silver Cities" of
> Anatolia in the Seleucid Empire. Nick 2 = 2 points.
> by Eric.
> octroi - n. - A ring of small filaments surrounding the mouth, used by
> many bony fishes to find prey by detecting underwater vibrations and
> electrical fields.
> Elliott: Cthulhu-esque.  Maybe inspired by OCTOPUS?  But far-enough
> removed from OCTO to merit a one-point vote.
>
> octroi - n. - In the Scottish Rite, the seven member sovereign council of
> a Lodge of the Northern Jurisdiction. (Note: the council consisted of eight
> by David. Ranjit 2, Pierre 1, Hutch 1, Elliott 2 plus one point for
> correct guess = 7 points.
> Pierre: "Oc" isn't a Greek preposition, and a Greek word ending in "-oi"
> is usually plural. One point.
> octroi - n. - 1) A concession or privilege granted by an absolute
> sovereign and serving as a limitation on his authority. 2) a: A tax on
> commodities brought into a town or city especially in certain European
> countries, a municipal customs. b: The agency for collecting such a tax
> or the city entrance at which it is collected.
> Octroi - n. - The ruling council of the islands of the northern Aegean
> Sea, during at least the Peloponnesian War (431–404 BCE); no remaining
> records identify the full extent of its rule, but the name leads scholars
> to conclude that it controlled at least the eight largest islands (Lesbos,

---

From: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 09:48:21 -0500

Does anyone know the word soroban?

On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 8:48 AM Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>> Ranjit: Pretty much everyone had the same idea, eh? King of the
>> octopodes! I want to vote only for non 8-king defs, but that seems like an
>> overreaction. Hmm.
>> Pierre: I am discounting anything involving eight or a king, including,
>> of course, my
>> By Josh. Eric 2, David 2, Pierre 2, Hutch 1, Elliott 1 plus two points
>> for correct guess = 10 points.
>> Nick: Catfish whiskers?
>> Eric: Two points, for not being about eight Greek men. Or eight things,
>> or Greek.
>> Hutch: I usually don't go for scientific fictionitions, but this one
>> feels right.
>> Hutch: I like this one: from a smuggler to a stuck-up pen-wiper. 2
>> points (not that I think it's actually the definition :-)
>> Elliott: Maybe they said "Troy" as a synecdoche for "Turkey"?  Two
>> points, plus the Byron Medal with the Rupert Brooke Cluster.
>>

---

From: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 17:38:05 -0500

Unfortunately, it was the less interesting abacus. So merrily we roll
along.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Pierre Abbat <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Fictionary] OCTROI results
To: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>

> Does anyone know the word soroban?

I know it's one of two things, and the other is sokoban:
* an abacus
* a room where one can push boxes, but not pull them.

Pierre
-- 
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

---

From: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 22:23:04 -0500

How do people feel about jugum?

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From: Hutch <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 12:52:40 -0400

Pierre:

What about the "sokoban" room permits one ONLY to push boxes but not to
pull them??? *head asplode*

BB,
Hutch

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/S d+>- s+:+ a++ C+++$ ULAC>$ P+ L+ !E W++$
N+ o K? w++++/--$ O? M- V? PS+ PE/- Y PGP- t++ 5?
X-- R !tv? b++++>$ DI++++ D G+> e++ h+ r--?* y++>

---

From: Jim Moskowitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 12:55:16 -0400

Here, let me Google that for you -- resulting in a trip down video-game memory lane (for some people, anyway): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokoban

> On Mar 10, 2024, at 12:52 PM, Hutch <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Pierre:
> 
> What about the "sokoban" room permits one ONLY to push boxes but not to pull them??? *head asplode*
> 
> BB,
> Hutch
>  
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 5:38 PM Joshua Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Unfortunately, it was the less interesting abacus. So merrily we roll along. 
>

---

From: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 19:32:32 -0400

Although jugum is Latin for "mountain pass" and "throat", neither of those
are the definition that I've found in the dictionary. So I think we can try
it.

Defs by 3/25? As a birthday present for my dad.

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 12:55 PM Jim Moskowitz <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Here, let me Google that for you -- resulting in a trip down video-game
> memory lane (for some people, anyway):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokoban
>
>
>

---

From: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 06:52:27 -0400

I have defs from J-J, Hutch, Ranjit, Pierre, and my dad. Everyone else -
could you get yours in by Wednesday night?

On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 12:27 AM J-J Cote <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> jugum - n. - A beverage containing eucalyptus sap.
>
> Jean-Joseph
>
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 7:52 PM Joshua Randall <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> Although jugum is Latin for "mountain pass" and "throat", neither of
>> those are the definition that I've found in the dictionary. So I think we
>> can try it.
>>

---

From: Joshua Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 06:53:17 -0400

Oh, and I missed Eric.