Subject: The Virgin Mary's Peas: ballot

From: Ranjit Bhatnagar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:42:10 -0400

Definitions presented in alphabetical order by first significant word.
 The usual voting rules apply: give two points to one def, and one
point to another.  Get me your votes by, oh, next Tuesday night,
please!

The Virgin Mary's Peas - buboes; the inflamed swelling of a lymph
node, especially in the area of the armpit or groin, that is
characteristic of certain infections, esp. bubonic plague and syphilis

The Virgin Mary's Peas (n.) -- A derisive name, coined by a skeptical
Sir Ronald Fisher, for the pea variety Pisum sativum subsp. sativum
var. leningradii (Vavilov 1934), on account of (1) its bluish seed
albumen, and (2) its property of spontaneously producing fertile seeds
which are genetically identical to crosses of the plant with other pea
varieties from which it has been completely isolated.  The phenomenon
is no longer in doubt, although the origin of the alien alleles
remains imperfectly understood.

The Virgin Mary's Peas - A desolate area in southern Albania, between
Gjirokaster and Permet. [hobson-jobson derivation from "dofertsjin me
respis" (valley without green)]

The Virgin Mary's Peas - noun. (slang, c. 1935) Freshmen or first year
students at a Catholic usu. boys boarding school.  Derived from "green
peas" and "virgin" meaning inexperienced.

"The Virgin Mary's Peas":  Lily-of-the-valley buds.

The Virgin Mary's Peas - In petanque, a circumstance where, after the
completion of an end, one team has no boules within the boundary of
the playing area, while the other team has at least three.

The Virgin Mary's Peas - rutabaga

The Virgin Mary's Peas - The seeds of a plant, Aotus gemmarius, used
in northern Mexico to make rosaries in a manner similar to jequirity.

The Virgin Mary's Peas: the stones called "Elijah's melons," on Mount
Carmel, and "the Virgin Mary's peas," near Bethlehem, are instances of
crystallization well known in limestone formations, etc.

---

From: Ranjit Bhatnagar <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:22:56 -0400

Sorry about the delay.  I blame mischevious imps.  Anyway, here are
the results for the Virgin Mary's Peas.  To cut to the chase: the
runaway winner is Pierre's rosary bead seeds, with 9 points.  Second
place went to the actual definition, the limestone pebbles of the holy
land.  Take it away, Pierre!

James says: "Well, I intuitively decided that it couldn't have an
actual definition referring to agriculture or plant life. This reduced
the available population of selections to five, one of which was mine.
The other four seemed incredible, but I decided to stick with my
intuition. Since I feel that none of them are correct, I'll give
points to my favorites"

Jean-Joseph says: "I'm quite impressed with the quality of the
definitions in this round. Great variety and imagination.  Nice word
choice, Ranjit."

Hutch says: "Very tempted by the two that used past Fictionary words
in them. However, decided that I liked my choices better."

Apologies to Linda, whose definition was delayed by the aforementioned
email imps until it was too late to include in the ballot: "A Trail of
Tears left by Mary after her son Jesus' birth, from which pea plants
sprouted in the desert, as she made her way to Egypt with Joseph,
fleeing from Bethlehem, peas being a symbol of everlasting life."

-- HUTCH (4 pts)
2 pts for correct guess

Elliott: "I don't see the connection between buboes and the BVM.  If
it were some saint's peas, I could maybe imagine a story, but the
Virgin Mary?"
James: 1 pt -- "I love the irony of associating syphilis with the Virgin Mary."
Jean-Joseph: 1 pt -- "Again, why a name like this?  One point."

-- ELLIOTT (3 pts)

David: 2 pts
Judith: 1 pt
Linda: "Gobbledegook that almost sounds plausible."
Hutch: "Close but no cigar! Should have been phrased slightly
differently: 'origins' are known or not known; 'mechanisms' are well
or poorly understood."

-- JEAN-JOSEPH (3 pts)

Elliott: 1 pt -- "I like the derivation, which would also explain the
capitalization.  A dictionary would have specified the language, but
maybe this is real and not from a dictionary.  But why would English
need a word for this place? If it had been 'southern Afghanistan',
now, or 'southern Kenya', sure. But Albania?"
James: 2 pts -- "This puts me in happy mind of Louis d'Antin van
Rooten's _Mots d'Heures: Gousses, Rames_. Indeed, I was inspired to
try and find it on my bookshelf, but I could not locate it where I
expected to find it. Curse my overbooked (in more ways than one)
life!"
Pierre: "'Me' means 'with'; 'pa' means 'without'."

-- NORA (1 pt)

Nora supplied this excellent usage example, which I omitted from the
ballot for consistency:
Trotter led the Virgin Mary's peas into the dining
hall, and we all had a look at them before they were
escorted out for the usual fun and games.  They looked
really awful, pale and shivering in their skivvies.
"We're going to have fun with this lot," I said to
Murphy, as he grinned, "Let's see what these peas are
made of."
   – from _Memoirs of a Catholic School Life_ by Charles Spalding

Linda: 1 pt -- "This reminds me of the poor frosh at Dartmouth, who
were called 'Pea-Green Freshmen' and had to wear those stupid beanies
everywhere for a long time. Not me  (no girls allowed back then), but
friends of mine.  I guess it was a bonding thing.  1 point."

-- JUDITH (2 pts)

Nora: 2 pts -- "nice and simple, and very believable.  I think this
might actually be the real definition."
Linda: "Hmmmm."

-- JAMES (3 pts)

Jean-Joseph: 2 pts -- "And why on earth would it be called that? 
Murnival award and two points."
Pierrre: 1 pt

-- DAVID: 2 pts
1 pt for correct guess

Nora: "runner-up for simplicity."
Hutch: 1 pt

-- Pierre (9 pts)
2 pts for correct guess

Pierre: "I put 'Aotus' to throw Judith off. There is a pea called
Aotus, but there's
also a monkey called Aotus."
Judith: 2 pts (does this mean Judith *was* or *wasn't* offthrown?)
Nora: 1 pt -- "I like the rosary reference. Very believable."
Elliot: 2 pt -- "Very nice!  One point for a plausible connection to
the Virgin Mary, one more point for the jequirity reference."
Jean-Joseph: "They make rosaries from jequirity?  Highly toxic prayer
beads?  Oh, wait, they do make rosaries from jequirity.  Hmm, so these
would be green rosaries instead of red, I suppose.   I was going to
give it a point, but... nah, just the Abrin award."
Linda: 2 pts -- "I like this def because of the religious tie-in."

The Virgin Mary's Peas: the stones called "Elijah's melons," on Mount
Carmel, and "the Virgin Mary's peas," near Bethlehem, are instances of
crystallization well known in limestone formations, etc.
-- STANLEY'S "SINAI AND PALESTINE" 
quoted in BREWER'S DICTIONARY OF PHRASE AND FABLE (5 pts)

David: 1 point
Nora: "runner-up for reference to religious places, etc. Also funny to
switch the names: Elijah's peas and the Virgin Mary's melons.  That
makes me a bit naughty, I think!"
Elliott: "I've looked it up now, and you know what?  I think Brewer is
MAKING THIS
UP.  'Elijah's Melons' -- really, he ought to be ashamed of himself."
Jean-Joseph: [Nope, it appears to be the limestone crystals.  Fifth
hit on Google.  Ah well.] ... [Ah, when searching for the phrase
exactly, there are only two hits: _Brewer's Phrase and Fable_ and _The
Book of the Wanderings of Brother Felix Fabri_.]
Linda: "Almost got my vote."
Hutch: 2 pts
Pierre: 2 pts

More on the VMP:

"In the aforesaid field of Habakkuk are found round white pebbles,
just like white peas.*

"*The stones called 'Elijah's melons,' on Mount Carmel, and 'the
Virgin Mary's peas,' near Bethlehem, are instances of crystallization
well known in limestone formations, etc.'--Stanley's 'Sinai and
Palestine,' chap. ii., sect. 4, and note. About these they who showed
us the field told us a childish story, which, nevertheless, I mean to
recount, as I have other childish things. They said that one day the
Lord Jesus was passing this way, and a countryman was sowing peas. The
Lord asked him what he was sowing. The husbandman replied mockingly:
'I am sowing stones.' The Lord said in answer to this: 'Be it then
even as thou sayest.' And straightway all the peas were turned into
stones, but kept their former colour and shape. We gathered some of
these pebbles for our own amusement."
-- The Book of the Wanderings of Brother Felix Fabri

---

From: Hutch <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:02:41 -0600

THANK YOU, JAMES!!!!!

Elliot, no connection. I was being ironic. Or perhaps 
sarcastic. Or perhaps I was aiming straight at blasphemy 
(blasphemical?).

The idea came from remembering that it was "well-known" in 
Classical times in Europe that sex with a virgin would cure 
syphilis.

Quoting Ranjit Bhatnagar <[email-masked]>:

[snippety]

> The Virgin Mary's Peas - buboes; the inflamed swell-
> ing of a lymph node, especially in the area of the
> armpit or groin, that is characteristic of certain
> infections, esp. bubonic plague and syphilis
> -- HUTCH (4 pts)
> 2 pts for correct guess
> 
> Elliott: "I don't see the connection between buboes
> and the BVM. If it were some saint's peas, I could
> maybe imagine a story, but the Virgin Mary?"

[snippety]